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Author Topic: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings  (Read 24051 times)

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Offline guysonic

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One of the most troubling issues with using newer technology FLASH MEMORY/MICRODRIVE recorders is the lack of easy file transfer/backup storage in the field when memory is full without needing to also pack a computer around for this purpose. 

One of the most attractive solutions to this problem is with a relatively new battery powered CD/DVD burner product with all manner of flash memory reader built into the device.  EZDigiMagic drive will automatically transfer/verify to CD/DVD the full contents of any Flash or Microdrive card inserted into its reader slots, and will do 'span' function to additional discs when needed.

Got one on order to try out and post my experiences, but I think a few of you would also like to try this for festivals and other remote recording projects.

Here is the URL for the manufacturer: http://www.ezpnp-usa.com/show_product.sstg?code=e7c2c4b39e8745e4 

Best deal found on this drive is from www.cyberguys.com (product #2040709) who sells just a few bucks over wholesale.

If you get one, post your impressions of how well or not this device works.  Also post other found products with similar functionality. 


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Offline MattD

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2006, 08:07:48 PM »
There are plenty of devices that copy CF to a hard drive. The only reason burning discs might be nice would be to hand a copy to the band before you leave, but then you have to keep extra blank media on you as well. I would prefer the hard drive device by a long shot.
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Offline guysonic

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2006, 08:46:29 PM »
There are plenty of devices that copy CF to a hard drive. The only reason burning discs might be nice would be to hand a copy to the band before you leave, but then you have to keep extra blank media on you as well. I would prefer the hard drive device by a long shot.

Please give URL links to suggested hard drive devices that transfer/verify flash memory without computer using battery power.

Many of the customers I ship field systems to pack project equipment into remote locations for days to many weeks of work without access to mains power.  Battery powered equipment is required that is compact, lightweight, and rechargeable batteries are most often not a practical power source.   

I do agree that packing in a stack of 100 DVD blank disks (>400 GIGs or 200 GIGs with making a duplicate backup) is likely less compact than size of two battery powered 200 GIG hardrives, but I question claim that many suitable 'stand-alone battery powered HD product exists having needed functions and portability.

While harddisk is one acceptable way to initially back up/store flash files, I have not a yet seen any that work for automatically transfering/verifying any type of flash and file type, AND will work off battery. 

Also an issue is hardisks can and do fail for good reason, or no reason taking all that's stored into 'maybe' recoverable limbo or permanent oblivian, so multiple hardisk or true RAID systems (with spare hard drive in the wings) must be packed for having true secure HD storage. 

With DVD disc storage of compact flash, and in particular to the EZDigiMagic device, MULTIPLE (non-computer assisted fully data verified) DUPLICATE DVD discs seems most practical using (external non-rechargeable) USB (see www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm#bc-mt) or (as alternate source) AC adapter connections for some kind of alkaline 7-14+ ampere battery sled powering in the field. 

As already discussed, EZDigiMagic device does seem the most practical for reasons stated, but (I for one) would appreciate other solid URL links to products suitable for securing flash file storage while working remote recording projects. 

This is rated as a 8X DVD burner that I hope will efficently burn and verify, and not run C or D alkaline batteries down quickly in the process.

As mentioned, I have one of these to arrive shortly, and hope fully lives up to expectations. 

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Offline spreetaper

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2006, 10:13:11 PM »
yeah a cd/dvd burner is way too much more stuff to have to deal with..

i have a sizeable rig and its packed to the brim..
and the guys with all in one recorders from the MT to the SD702 arent going to want to have to deal with any more bulk..
my opinion anyways

OTG hard drives are the way too go!
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Offline Jamos

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2006, 12:45:55 AM »
IMO, it doesn't seem like a bad idea if you're out recording for several days and don't have a computer or hard drive to copy the flash cards to.  This would be a quick way to back up, and then re-use the cards again and again.


Offline udovdh

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2006, 01:34:19 AM »
Any different for a HD-based recorer e.g. like an iRiver?
Which OTG solutions work well and do you reccommend?

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2006, 10:50:53 AM »
udovdh, there is a card reader add-on for ipods. Dont know about other mp3 players.

Dpreview.com storage forum >>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1023

Offline flintstone

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2006, 02:51:12 PM »
Portable storage devices (PSDs) are designed to copy data from flash memory cards to a small hard disc.  After the copying is completed, the memory card can be erased and re-used in the audio recorder or digital camera.

PSDs are storage devices.  They are not designed for playback of the music or display of the photos transferred.  This keeps the design simple, and the costs down.  If you must have a device that can play back the files, look to a more expensive music player like an iPod or a device designed to show movies on the go.  These gadgets won't perform the PSD function as quickly or easily, however.

PSDs usually have a built-in flash card reader that supports Compactflash.  A few require you to attach the card reader externally (a disadvantage, IMO).

Don't use a USB cable to connect the recorder or camera to the PSD. Insert the memory card directly into the PSD.  This transfers the files much faster, and does not waste battery power in the recorder.

A couple of years ago it looked like a PSD based on a portable CD or DVD recorder would be a good solution.  Unfortunately, these machines transfer the files much more slowly (e.g., 30 minutes vs 5 minutes) and use much more battery power.  They produce more heat, so proper ventilation is an issue.  And they should be run on a level surface for best results.  Given these issues, there's little reason to consider a PSD that records to a CD or DVD.

There are many companies that make PSDs.  Two with good reputations for the fastest file copying, decent construction, and low price are Hyperdrive and Nexto. Both can be ordered without a hard drive if you want to use your own, or with a hard drive included.

Hyperdrive is somewhat larger and heavier than the Nexto.  This is because Hyperdrive runs on AA cells that can easily be swapped out.  The Hyperdrive also includes a flash card reader that supports multiple card types.

Sanho, a company in China, makes the Hyperdrive. In USA, you can purchase Hyperdrive from www.hyperdrive.com or from www.adorama.com

Outside USA, Sanho sells its product as CompactDrive PD70X.  (Note that there is a less desirable model called the PD7X.  Don't order that one.) You can order from several retailers in Australia and Hong Kong.  Price is the same or lower than USA, and delivery usually takes 2 or 3 days.  Reliable vendors include  www.eastgear.com (Singapore) and www.jaldigital.com.au (Australia)

Nexto is a second option.  The Nexto CF is smaller and lighter than the Hyperdrive because it uses a rechargeable battery that can't be swapped out.  The Nexto CF is somewhat faster at copying files. The Nexto CF has a slot for Compactflash only.  Adapters for other card types are available.

The Nexto has a little better build quality than the Hyperdrive.  The Nexto starts up and is ready to transfer files in a few seconds.  The Hyperdrive takes longer.

Nexto has another advantage:  It runs on a wide range of DC voltages.  So it may fit in with your external battery setup better than the Hyperdrive.

The Nexto CF is available in USA from www.mydigitaldiscount.com.  Internationally, it is available from www.jaldigital.com.au among others.


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Offline guysonic

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2006, 08:25:31 PM »
Portable storage devices (PSDs) are designed to copy data from flash memory cards to a small hard disc.  After the copying is completed, the memory card can be erased and re-used in the audio recorder or digital camera.

PSDs are storage devices.  They are not designed for playback of the music or display of the photos transferred.  This keeps the design simple, and the costs down.  If you must have a device that can play back the files, look to a more expensive music player like an iPod or a device designed to show movies on the go.  These gadgets won't perform the PSD function as quickly or easily, however.

PSDs usually have a built-in flash card reader that supports Compactflash.  A few require you to attach the card reader externally (a disadvantage, IMO).

Don't use a USB cable to connect the recorder or camera to the PSD. Insert the memory card directly into the PSD.  This transfers the files much faster, and does not waste battery power in the recorder.

A couple of years ago it looked like a PSD based on a portable CD or DVD recorder would be a good solution.  Unfortunately, these machines transfer the files much more slowly (e.g., 30 minutes vs 5 minutes) and use much more battery power.  They produce more heat, so proper ventilation is an issue.  And they should be run on a level surface for best results.  Given these issues, there's little reason to consider a PSD that records to a CD or DVD.

There are many companies that make PSDs.  Two with good reputations for the fastest file copying, decent construction, and low price are Hyperdrive and Nexto. Both can be ordered without a hard drive if you want to use your own, or with a hard drive included.

Hyperdrive is somewhat larger and heavier than the Nexto.  This is because Hyperdrive runs on AA cells that can easily be swapped out.  The Hyperdrive also includes a flash card reader that supports multiple card types.

Sanho, a company in China, makes the Hyperdrive. In USA, you can purchase Hyperdrive from www.hyperdrive.com or from www.adorama.com

Outside USA, Sanho sells its product as CompactDrive PD70X.  (Note that there is a less desirable model called the PD7X.  Don't order that one.) You can order from several retailers in Australia and Hong Kong.  Price is the same or lower than USA, and delivery usually takes 2 or 3 days.  Reliable vendors include  www.eastgear.com (Singapore) and www.jaldigital.com.au (Australia)

Nexto is a second option.  The Nexto CF is smaller and lighter than the Hyperdrive because it uses a rechargeable battery that can't be swapped out.  The Nexto CF is somewhat faster at copying files. The Nexto CF has a slot for Compactflash only.  Adapters for other card types are available.

The Nexto has a little better build quality than the Hyperdrive.  The Nexto starts up and is ready to transfer files in a few seconds.  The Hyperdrive takes longer.

Nexto has another advantage:  It runs on a wide range of DC voltages.  So it may fit in with your external battery setup better than the Hyperdrive.

The Nexto CF is available in USA from www.mydigitaldiscount.com.  Internationally, it is available from www.jaldigital.com.au among others.


Flintstone

Thank you for a most thoughtful post with useful tips, AND clear URLs to several affordable, and universally available products for portable flash storage. 

After looking over the descriptions of  both the Hyperdrive and Nexto, it’s difficult for me to pick a favorite for having best mix of features for secure remote location storage.  However, with most preliminary review of features, it does seem either model would satisfy known requirements for compact size, practical portable powering, and verification of written-to-disc data. 

I am now tending to agree with posts that suggest HD (vs. DVD) PSD devices as the most practical for smaller size (especially for NOT needing to carry blank DVD discs)  and power efficiency (if HD writing/verification tests significantly faster than DVD device).

The need for more robust storage of most valuable, expensive to produce, and once-in-a-lifetime data for secure storage requires duplication.  Duplication of data.  Likely a more professional requirement for specific project work files not be entrusted to ONLY one device as this may fail to operate and/or store files reliably. 

HD PSD requires at least two be used for most professional secured (duplicate) backup.  Being very small size does seem to make the HD PSD most practical over EXDigiMagic DVD requiring both duplicate units and quantity of DVD blanks as was pointed out.

However, logistics for longer running work-in-progress projects may require the greater portability of DVD disc backup.  Here recordings need occasionally be transported to a more secure location or postproduction facility and having BOTH HD + DVD type PSD devices may be the most practical backup system under these circumstances.  Or, as suggested, being able to quickly hand-off a copy of a performance recording to the band or fan could be motivating enough to carry the extra bulk of the transport and a few blank DVDs.

So far, all PSD model types examined fully operate off connected USB power external sources of sufficient amperage ability.  The HD models will also charge internal batteries in this manner.

While I have external USB regulated power sleds with at least .6 ampere rating proven to simultaneously charge the battery and run MT2496 CF deck, it remains to be proven these same external USB supplies will also connect to, and operate the DVD or HD PSD devices.  Of particular concern is battery charging AND handling the startup power of the HD drive disk; HD startup power is an amperage surge much larger than usual run power, if only for a brief period of time.

There does seem advantage to purchasing the bare bones HD PSD (without disc drive) as then a person may better know performance and reliability by selection from known manufacturer’s models. 

Maybe this discussion should include suggestions on most suitable 2.5 inch drives and some sources.   I myself wonder if (likely) higher expense/power requirement of faster >4400 RPM drives is justified for this particular purpose. 

Excellent reliability, and having G-sensor feature guarding head-to-disc damage from abrupt deck movements seems most desirable.  I seem to recall certain Seagate 7200 RPM 2.5” drives having this feature, or was it Hitachi (former IBM type) drives, maybe both?



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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2006, 08:57:48 PM »
Flintstone

Nice when someone does some research.  You should link this in the archive.
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2006, 11:01:53 PM »
...The need for more robust storage of most valuable, expensive to produce, and once-in-a-lifetime data ...requires duplication. 

The Sound Devices 722 and 744T recorders have the ability to write to internal hard disc and Compactflash simultaneously.  The data on the Compactflash can be transferred to a PSD like the Hyperdrive or Nexto as needed.

If you don't want to be bothered with servicing your flash memory cards in the field,  consider carrying several Compactflash cards and swapping them out as needed.  Flash memory prices have declined dramatically, so it's not unreasonable to carry enough Compactflash cards for a day's recording.

It's pretty unlikely that both the 722 hard disc and the PSD hard disc will fail before you get back to the studio.  Theft of equipment becomes a bigger risk.  The PSD is little larger than a paperback book, and a stack of Compactflash cards is smaller still.  So you can transport the backup of your recordings separate from the recording gear.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2006, 03:24:33 PM »
yeah a cd/dvd burner is way too much more stuff to have to deal with..

OTG hard drives are the way too go!

I agree that Nexto OTG (with internal Lithium rechargeable maybe good for 30Gig of transfer) is one of the best choices for compact size especially suited for CF type, and having battery power for one day's worth of higher bit/rate recordings.  For other types of flash cards like SD used in new R-09, Nexto OTG requires an external USB card reader.  This additional reader must be packed and plugged into the Nexto OTG's (active networking) USB port, or maybe use just a CF-to-SD slot adapter if there's such a product.

 
IMO, it doesn't seem like a bad idea if you're out recording for several days and don't have a computer or hard drive to copy the flash cards to.  This would be a quick way to back up, and then re-use the cards again and again.

For non-professional backup not requiring the safety of duplication, there's less good reasons or need for packing a PSD drive. 

As mentioned, Flash Memory is being produced with increasing capacity and decreasing cost.  While it does seem that at least for <48K operation (where file sizes are not huge), it may now be affordable to record up to several festival days worth of high quality .wav audio on a single 8GIG flash card before needing to do a dump to hard disk. 

At higher >48K bit .wav rates, 8 GIG stores <5 hours, so for benefit of 24bit/88.2K audio or better, there's definite need to dump files to a PSD at least once a day.

While I like the NEXTO: OTG device for allowing easy USB port battery charging/drive powering feature for having long running external USB power options. 

However, there's definite advantage to having the option of AA cell powering of the HYPERDRIVE HD series (found to NOT allow external USB powering/charging) as this unit is ALWAYS ready to be powered by whatever AA cell type is available, and may be most practical for those who do not regularly have requirement for dumping flash during remote recording projects.   When needed, just insert AA cells (any type) and go; otherwise, the internal battery of devices like the NEXTO: OTG 'goes to seed,' getting old just sitting on the shelf even if not being used.

There are plenty of devices that copy CF to a hard drive. The only reason burning discs might be nice would be to hand a copy to the band before you leave, but then you have to keep extra blank media on you as well. I would prefer the hard drive device by a long shot.

This is ONE of the best reasons to carry the larger size, likely slower EZDigiMagic DVD into a music venue, and one I personally did not consider being more focused on flash dump/safety backup purposes.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2006, 03:52:31 AM »
EZDigiMagic First Impressions:
Product arrived enclosed in product cardboard box measuring (H x W x D) 7.5x9x5 inches closely fitting the supplied crush resistant padded carrying case with everything inside.   This would be the carrying case to use as it comes internally divided with room for a pancake stack of 25 or more blank discs, and additional velcro’d pieces allows customization of space.  The zippered lid also has an internal zipper ‘fishnet’ pouch maybe good for 8 AA spare batteries.

Found included inside the carrying case is 20 page User’s manual, USB 2.0 cable, (universal 110-240V) 5 volt DC /1.3A AC adapter.  Also included is PowerDVD 6 2CH version, and NERO OEM Suite software.

Visual inspection inferred excellent build quality, and a ‘Made in Taiwan’ label gives reason to expect better than average manufacture (from usual Far East sources) with top-quality QC’d materials and production methods.  For example, the AA internal cell holder used gold plated battery contacts not usually found in most portable battery products from Mainland China.  The AC adapter is the ONLY article sporting a ‘Made in China’ label.

Next task is to fire it up to see how it works.

I hope to use this on location, and for faster-than-computer archiving of master flash memory recordings.  I'm now thinking it looks like much less labor/time to plug in AC adapter,  insert flash card, load blank, and push the button to burn a verified copy on this device than using the usual computer hardware/software programs. 
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Offline guysonic

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2006, 05:10:27 PM »
Sorry to have gotten distracted for update on the EZDigiMagic device tests.  This summer is going to be great for recording if my work load is any indication.

Got the unit, and did a few CF test transfers, and it works exactly as advertised with one button simplicity. Span disk functions perfectly for doing very large flash cards and seems to NOT split up individual files between discs.

However, what is NOT advertised on ANY of these devices (OTG Hard Drive types included) is the TIME IT TAKES TO DO TRANSFER AND VERIFICATION.

While your results may vary, the EZDigiMagic optical takes a lo.......ng time to do transfers, and I would hope the (OTG) hard drive devices work quite a bit faster, but NO WAY to tell because NO DATA on these either without actually buying and seeing what is so.

EZDigiMagic device will copy a MAXIMUM OF 4 GIGS to DVD disc.  Unit first transfers, and then user needs select the Verify function, pushing the go button again.  User manual claims about 90 minutes running time on (4) 2300ma NiMH AA cells.  Supplied carrying case is quite nice (but large) for holding the unit and 2 spare sets of batteries in the zippered lid section, but is hard pressed to hold more than half dozen pancaked blanks, a small deck, and a bit large/heavy AC adapter.   

Obvously, running this unit on batteries while in the field is most convenient way to use these devices, but taking so much time for transfers allows just 12 GIGs of transfer/verification on three sets of 2500 ma NiMH cells (with some margin.)

Makes me think an external step-up switcher regulated 5 volt battery system running on 4 D cells is more practical for festival length field projects.  Then having ~10+ hours device running time, or ~30 GIGs copied/verified per 4 D cell set (if I've done the math correctly) allows plenty of potential for field backup, if time to transfer is tolerable maybe with having a few spare flash cards to allow backup copy while recording.

My results using 8-16x DVD+ or - R discs:

TEST 1) (2) 2 GIG CF files or total 4 GIGs to transfer: ~59 minutes to transfer, 22 minutes to verify, and has comparison feature that takes as long as the write did.

TEST 2) (1) 2 GIG file and (1) 760 MEG file or total to transfer: ~41 minutes to transfer, and seemed like ~12-15 minutes to verify.  However, time is iffy as I kept running the task and missing the exact completion time with multitasking while working a manual stop watch

This BECAUSE this device sounds a (defeatable) 'buzzer' when copy is complete, so you know at a distance process is complete, but verification function somehow ends silently with NO audio announcement!

Question is, how long do the OTG devices take, and what's the internal battery life?



 
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Offline SunWizard

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2006, 12:52:58 PM »

Question is, how long do the OTG devices take, and what's the internal battery life?


This is not an OTG drive but better, here is what I have been using to transfer my SD cards from the R-09. 40GB drive, its very fast, got on ebay for $160 with a spare battery: http://www.smartdisk.com/eWeb/smartdiskus/www/staticpages/FlashTrax1.asp It think it runs a variety of Linux.
 I use it after I fill my 2 - 2GB cards.  Because this is much cheaper than buying 20 - 2GB cards which would be $1000.  I like it better than the USB OTG drives since it can be used for a lot more like pictures from my digital camera, and a picture viewer, and as a mp3 and wav player.  It transfers fast, about 20 mins for a full 2GB card which is around 14Mb/sec.  Transfers 3 full 2GB cards on a charge and the battery is easy to swap.  Large 3.5" screen thats nice for previewing pics, screen goes off automatically while copying to save power.

Its also very easy, hit one button to copy and entire card.
 
 
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2006, 06:19:10 PM »

Question is, how long do the OTG devices take, and what's the internal battery life?


This is not an OTG drive but better, here is what I have been using to transfer my SD cards from the R-09. 40GB drive, its very fast, got on ebay for $160 with a spare battery: http://www.smartdisk.com/eWeb/smartdiskus/www/staticpages/FlashTrax1.asp It think it runs a variety of Linux.
 I use it after I fill my 2 - 2GB cards.  Because this is much cheaper than buying 20 - 2GB cards which would be $1000.  I like it better than the USB OTG drives since it can be used for a lot more like pictures from my digital camera, and a picture viewer, and as a mp3 and wav player.  It transfers fast, about 20 mins for a full 2GB card which is around 14Mb/sec.  Transfers 3 full 2GB cards on a charge and the battery is easy to swap.  Large 3.5" screen thats nice for previewing pics, screen goes off automatically while copying to save power.

Its also very easy, hit one button to copy and entire card.

FlashTrax seems a very useful, practical, and versatile device for doing more than just backup of CF with ability to play and output most media files, and claims to play some types(?) of .wav files.

I think for at least for USA customers not finding FlashTax on eBAY, most will find this model discontinued, and now replaced with more featured FlashTrax XT (no playing ability for .wav?) at: http://www.smartdisk.com/eWeb/smartdiskus/www/staticpages/FlashtraxXT.asp

So for about the cost of optical EZDigiMagic device, FlashTrax XTseems a great backup portable option for at least CF flash.

Same Smartdisk manufacture also offers less costly/featured backup PhotoBank device with choices of storage capacity, and more versatile (built in reader for most all types of flash), but with less convenient internal battery at: http://www.smartdisk.com/eWeb/smartdiskus/www/staticpages/PhotoBank.aspe

While I do NOT lose sleep over issues of backup, ever since the loss of achival quality direct to DAT tape recorders, I have wondered about having viable backup for flash and HD based recordings.  It now seems obvious there's two different requirements for remote data transfers with these new decks. 

One is the need to dump flash for renewed recording storage.  For this, a single copy transfer is all that's required until returning to home base for archival options, and any of the portable HD flash readers will do this with ease and convenience.  HD drive decks mostly do not require unloading while in the field.

Second is requirement for safety backup where even HD decks require transfer for two copy security of important resources.

For some time, part of me wishes I purchased something like the FlashTrax (XT) with all those really cool features, like smaller carrying size, longer running battery, and likely 2X faster transfer.  And I think most of us would choose this as best type to carry around.

On the other hand, at least for professionals, simple transfer to single EFH (eventually-f-f-f-fail harddrive) is NOT backup, and may not provide the needed security for storing the ONLY COPY of NOT replaceable recordings.  It does seem the really important files worth keeping require eventual transfer to failsafe raid type HD disk array, or archival quality (maybe duplicate; gold or what???) optical disc. 

Such as technology is right now, don't feel too badly having the portable optical burner with owning a flash deck, as a burner provides true archive backup/verification ability without computer assist at any location (on battery/AC adapter) using very simple one/two step process. 

Also consider, at least for audio, internal hard drive recorders have easier backup advantages over CF storage.  Deck's disc capacity is more likely large enough that ALL REMOTELY MADE RECORDINGS are stored inside the deck until project's end (the #1 everything copy), AND wondered if #2 copy (a true BACKUP) from deck to (OTG types) HD storage is technically possible.  Obviously, at least the R-4 can backup user selectable HD files to CF flash already, and this creates a true secured backup.  Question is, are there any HD devices on the market today(?) with ability to store files from these type decks directly? .

In other words, is it now possible to directly connect a portable hard drive backup device to decks like R-4 and SD722/744T?

This seems a worthy feature to insist having, makes the expense, size, and powering issue with these type decks more worth the extra effort for location recording requiring backup routines.

Mostly we have researched and found practical flash transfer devices, and now look for something for doing direct deck's internal HD-to-external backup.

Anybody know if some HD deck models feature direct backup connectivity (NOT to flash card; no computer) and/or suitable HD (even optical) storage models that function linked together? 
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2006, 06:28:47 PM »
In other words, is it now possible to directly connect a portable hard drive backup device to decks like R-4 and SD722/744T?
 

You can do it with the R-4 Pro.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2006, 07:18:21 PM »
In other words, is it now possible to directly connect a portable hard drive backup device to decks like R-4 and SD722/744T?
 

You can do it with the R-4 Pro.

JAson

the 722/744t are having a new firmware release soon in the 2.xx firmwares that allows firewire/HDD mirroring and faster firewire speeds :) the HDD mirroring is sweet cause you can hook up an external firewire HD and have extended runtimes as long as you have battery power and also is nice cause you have an instant backup on a seperate hd, which is kinda like a live raid setup ;D

these SD 7xx devices are just getting better and better w/ firmwares :)
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2006, 07:22:39 PM »
i need to buy a 722.


Because nothing says "I have lots of money and am sort of confused as to how to spend it" like Bose.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2006, 07:54:56 PM »
i need to buy a 722.

yes you do :)
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
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Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2006, 09:27:04 PM »
haha +t beaner


Because nothing says "I have lots of money and am sort of confused as to how to spend it" like Bose.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2006, 05:08:40 PM »
There really are all sorts of choices for field backup:

-- simple battery powered hard drive with flash memory card slot

-- Simple battery powered DVD burner with flash card slot

-- On-The-Go drive that you can hook directly to your recorder via USB

-- Portable music player that can accept transfers from a flash card reader

-- Drive with LCD screen that can be used to review photos, including RAW formats

-- Drive with big LCD so you can watch movies as well as make flash card backups

-- Ultra-portable PC with USB port for flash card reader

-- Full size laptop, with or without DVD burner

Any of these could be the best choice, depending on your circumstances and needs.

Flintstone

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2006, 05:38:13 PM »
There really are all sorts of choices for field backup:

-- simple battery powered hard drive with flash memory card slot

-- Simple battery powered DVD burner with flash card slot

-- On-The-Go drive that you can hook directly to your recorder via USB

-- Portable music player that can accept transfers from a flash card reader

-- Drive with LCD screen that can be used to review photos, including RAW formats

-- Drive with big LCD so you can watch movies as well as make flash card backups

-- Ultra-portable PC with USB port for flash card reader

-- Full size laptop, with or without DVD burner

Any of these could be the best choice, depending on your circumstances and needs.

Flintstone

As ONLY A FEW users so far have posted actual experience using optical disc and hard drive flash backup devices, it may be at least interesting, and even useful to use this thread to post continued flash dump/backup and direct harddrive deck-to-harddrive backup experiences.  Devices that copy flash should work as advertised and successful experiences might well be posted.  Sometimes personal experience shows a model not reliable or working as expected and this might be also good know about.

In other words, is it now possible to directly connect a portable hard drive backup device to decks like R-4 and SD722/744T?
 

You can do it with the R-4 Pro.

JAson

the 722/744t are having a new firmware release soon in the 2.xx firmwares that allows firewire/HDD mirroring and faster firewire speeds :) the HDD mirroring is sweet cause you can hook up an external firewire HD and have extended runtimes as long as you have battery power and also is nice cause you have an instant backup on a seperate hd, which is kinda like a live raid setup ;D

these SD 7xx devices are just getting better and better w/ firmwares :)

Hard drive decks with ability for direct connectivity to external storage should be tested to confirm actual working as expected.  This experience is useful for those already using these decks now or planning to purchase.  Also for the manufacturers to know a particular deck model is performing direct connection to external harddisk in a timely and consistently reliable manner with all known or just some harddrives. 

Results may vary with make/model type of external drive used with particular deck model, and posted details of good, bad, and ugly experiences are valued. 

In other words, I hope we update this thread occassionally with new experiences so to be a continuing resource on the topic.
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

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Offline SunWizard

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2006, 09:02:47 PM »
Good idea for others to post actual experiences.  It would help if that includes the time to backup since some of the devices listed at the beginning of this thread were very slow on the spec sheet (4Mb/s) and many don't go as fast as the specs depending upon the card being used.

Here is a $9 adapter I use with my Flashtrax so that it works with my SD cards and CF cards:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7534952463

And my 20 minute time for a 2GB SD card was for the standard (slower and recommended for R-09) Sandisk card.
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2006, 09:13:26 PM »
if mi was using cf cards i wouldnt settle for anything less than 16/MB/sec in the filed, that way you can transfer from CF>HD ala the eatsgera compactdrive and still have plenty of time to format the CF card and get a beer/take a piss, nothing would be worse than having one 4GB CF CArd and having a short setbreak and the band comes back on wheil your transferring the card or formatting it

i would buy ONE 45x or faster CF CArd and the eastgear 70x compactdrive, thats the one that transfers at 16/MB/sec and be set, even for festies, the price of a god cf card is still at around 200 dollars for a sandisc or a kingston, and thats the price for those eastgear compactdrives, you can put in any size HD you want w/ in reason and be ready to go, plus the eastgear compactdrives can transfer up to 50GB of data on one set of rechargeable AA's, sop you cant beat that w/ a stick

i might get one of those cheapie PQI 8GB cf cards to run as a backup for the 722 when im not doing festies, or just even run that to save battery power for my 722,a nd i could transfer from 722 CF card>722 HD inbetween sets
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
128gb & 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Cards

FiiO E10K DAC/HP Amp & E11K HP Amp ->
Sony MDR-7506 Cans & SA-VA15 Speakers | Monster iSport Victory Earbuds

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2006, 10:45:34 PM »
Like guysonic says, we really should distinguish between

1. a system that makes a copy of recorded material so you
can erase and re-use the recording medium, and

2. a system that makes a second copy for backup.

Three examples of approach #2 are
722 with hard disc and Compactflash;
Nagra V with 2 hard discs; and
Zaxcom Deva II with hard disc and DVD-RAM

With the declining  cost of Compactflash and Secure Digital
cards,  we really don't need #1 for a day's recording any more.
Just carry a bunch of flash cards. Copy them to computer
at the end of the day.

Flintstone

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2006, 10:46:28 PM »
I think you are still getting your bits and bytes confused.  A 16Mb (bit)/sec drive will take about 40 minutes to transfer a 4GB (bytes) card, I know since I do it with my Flashtrax which is spec about the same for speed as the best OTG drives.
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2006, 10:52:33 PM »
I think you are still getting your bits and bytes confused.  A 16Mb (bit)/sec drive will take about 40 minutes to transfer a 4GB (bytes) card, I know since I do it with my Flashtrax which is spec about the same for speed as the best OTG drives.

oops, sorry, youd think after going to electronics school for 2 years i wouldnt keep doing that :)
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
128gb & 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Cards

FiiO E10K DAC/HP Amp & E11K HP Amp ->
Sony MDR-7506 Cans & SA-VA15 Speakers | Monster iSport Victory Earbuds

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2006, 10:02:57 AM »
I think you are still getting your bits and bytes confused.  A 16Mb (bit)/sec drive will take about 40 minutes to transfer a 4GB (bytes) card, I know since I do it with my Flashtrax which is spec about the same for speed as the best OTG drives.
The HyperDrive HD80 promises 16MB/s, link. Like Leonard said, we need someone to actually use one of these things and report back on actual performance.
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2006, 03:34:23 PM »
I think you are still getting your bits and bytes confused.  A 16Mb (bit)/sec drive will take about 40 minutes to transfer a 4GB (bytes) card, I know since I do it with my Flashtrax which is spec about the same for speed as the best OTG drives.
The HyperDrive HD80 promises 16MB/s, link. Like Leonard said, we need someone to actually use one of these things and report back on actual performance.


16MB/s is the BURST rating on this device, not the sustained transfer rate.  Likely burst speed is more useful for smaller flash capacity transfers, but not a useful indicator for large capacity flash like we tend to use here. 

Many devices seem to put the burst spec up front, and not also give sustained rates most useful for audio. 

This of course is why trying out stuff is so important, you often can't tell enough from the marketing/technical literature to know actual performance.
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2006, 05:30:05 PM »
The Hyperdrive (also called Compactdrive in markets outside the USA) has
been on the market for about a year, and it is widely adopted by photographers.
A quick scan of www.dpreview.com, a respected photo forum, produced
the following test results, posted by readers.

Sandisk Ultra II  -- transfer 4GB in 6.75 minutes (9.8MB/sec)

Sandisk Ultra II --  transfer 2GB in 3.5 minutes (9.5MB/sec)

Sandisk Extreme III -- transfer 2GB  approx. 3min  (11MB/sec)

A post to the forum described how long the batteries will last:
copied 80GB of files from a SanDisk Ultra II CF on one fully charged set of 2500mAh.

Flintstone

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2006, 03:54:29 PM »
I have been using the Hyperdrive for about 6 months.  Absolutley love the thing.  The above transfer times seem accurate.  About 3-4 minutes/75 minunte set @24/48.  It has transferred every file perfectly.  It is easy to use and transfers onto PC through USB at about the same rate (3-4 min/75 set @24/48)

I use Lithium rechargables.  Since I recharge them before every show I cannot speak to the battery life, but would say 80 GB/charge seems a little high.

Highly recommended unit.

Jesse

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2006, 09:04:44 PM »
I have been using the Hyperdrive for about 6 months.  Absolutley love the thing.  The above transfer times seem accurate.  About 3-4 minutes/75 minunte set @24/48.  It has transferred every file perfectly.  It is easy to use and transfers onto PC through USB at about the same rate (3-4 min/75 set @24/48)

I use Lithium rechargables.  Since I recharge them before every show I cannot speak to the battery life, but would say 80 GB/charge seems a little high.

Highly recommended unit.

Jesse

I also use the HD80 and love it... people that complain about the storage capacity of CF-based recorders need to stop worrying... this thing is all you need. Throw your hard-disk based recorders away, or if it's a 722, keep it, cuz that box owns regardless... needless to say, the HD80 is great.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2006, 11:29:30 PM »

The HyperDrive HD80 promises 16MB/s, link. Like Leonard said, we need someone to actually use one of these things and report back on actual performance.


Thank you for posting your experiences with transfers.  And following my own advice, here is an update on the burner I purchased for easy flash transfer to DVD.

While my EZDigiMagic burner worked flawlessly for transfers of 2 ~2GIG size flash files or < 4 gigs fitting on 1 DVD blank, recent need to transfer 3 files totalling just over 5 GIGs to DVD caused the spanning feature to fail. 

Burner initiated stating spanning was needed to transfer the flash files, and first try made it to beginning of file #2 before burner ground to a standstill only acting like it was still burning files (drive activity light still flashing), but NO transfered bytes file status change after ~44 mininutes to over 60 minutes when I had to pull the plug (power off switch) as ESC button didn't work, starting over.  Second and third try initiated identically, but failed to transfer even the 1st file after two more tries before again locking up with identical symtoms.

Looked at the first burned disc and found a readable and intact (first) file, and second 0 bit failed file.  So I had the first file transfered OK and deleted that file from the flash using the MT deck.  Then again used the EXDigiMagic to successfully transfer the remaining <4 GIG two files to single DVD disk. 

While CD-R/RW capacity disk spanning might work OK (not yet tested) there seems a likely problem with DVD spanning over 4 GIGs and I won't know for sure until next time I have again have similar >4GIG flash capacity to transfer.

I guess it's time (after the 4th holiday) to call their customer/technical assist numbers to see if there's a problem with a solution.

Keep sharing those transfer device experiences.
 
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2006, 12:09:45 AM »
i saw jon merins hd80 compactdrive and its the tits, if i was using cf cards, thats what id buy, he transferred his AND jds's cf cards in NO time at setbreak/after last nites moe show
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
128gb & 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Cards

FiiO E10K DAC/HP Amp & E11K HP Amp ->
Sony MDR-7506 Cans & SA-VA15 Speakers | Monster iSport Victory Earbuds

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2006, 07:38:40 PM »
The 40GB SmartDisk Flashtrax XT personal media player is on sale at CompUSA.  Normally $299, there's a $100 mail in rebate if you order before the end of the month.  Take a look here http://tinyurl.com/pzb7c

The Flashtrax XT copies data from your Compactflash card a lot more slowly than competitors like Hyperdrive.  But it does have the ability to play MP3 and WMA audio, plus a bunch of video formats on a 3.5" color LCD screen.  $199 is pretty cheap for these features.  Of course, it's on sale for a reason.  No doubt there is an improved version in the works.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2006, 11:06:29 PM »
The 40GB SmartDisk Flashtrax XT personal media player is on sale at CompUSA.  Normally $299, there's a $100 mail in rebate if you order before the end of the month.  Take a look here http://tinyurl.com/pzb7c

The Flashtrax XT copies data from your Compactflash card a lot more slowly than competitors like Hyperdrive.  But it does have the ability to play MP3 and WMA audio, plus a bunch of video formats on a 3.5" color LCD screen.  $199 is pretty cheap for these features.  Of course, it's on sale for a reason.  No doubt there is an improved version in the works.

Flintstone

Looks to be a good buy, but noticed website says 'sold out for delivery, in store purchase only.' 
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2006, 03:33:24 PM »

The HyperDrive HD80 promises 16MB/s, link. Like Leonard said, we need someone to actually use one of these things and report back on actual performance.


Thank you for posting your experiences with transfers.  And following my own advice, here is an update on the burner I purchased for easy flash transfer to DVD.

While my EZDigiMagic burner worked flawlessly for transfers of 2 ~2GIG size flash files or < 4 gigs fitting on 1 DVD blank, recent need to transfer 3 files totalling just over 5 GIGs to DVD caused the spanning feature to fail. 

Burner initiated stating spanning was needed to transfer the flash files, and first try made it to beginning of file #2 before burner ground to a standstill only acting like it was still burning files (drive activity light still flashing), but NO transfered bytes file status change after ~44 mininutes to over 60 minutes when I had to pull the plug (power off switch) as ESC button didn't work, starting over.  Second and third try initiated identically, but failed to transfer even the 1st file after two more tries before again locking up with identical symtoms.

Looked at the first burned disc and found a readable and intact (first) file, and second 0 bit failed file.  So I had the first file transfered OK and deleted that file from the flash using the MT deck.  Then again used the EXDigiMagic to successfully transfer the remaining <4 GIG two files to single DVD disk. 

While CD-R/RW capacity disk spanning might work OK (not yet tested) there seems a likely problem with DVD spanning over 4 GIGs and I won't know for sure until next time I have again have similar >4GIG flash capacity to transfer.

I guess it's time (after the 4th holiday) to call their customer/technical assist numbers to see if there's a problem with a solution.

Keep sharing those transfer device experiences.
 

Finally got around to calling EzDigiMagic product Customer service (during business hours) and was quickly talking to a tech who related NO ONE has tested the device spanning with anything like the large 2 GIG audio files I was attempting when transfer problems occured. 

As with flash memory cards, these devices are mostly used for digital camera photo files and later for MP3 audio, NOT specifically tested to handle continuous audio files of two or more GIGS each in size, so I was the first to report this shortcoming with transfer that required DVD (~4 GIG capacity) disk spanning.

After confirming my unit had the latest firmware and everything, the tech is giving this a 'high priority' engineering support status to find out what can be done. 

Keep progress on this posted as the EzDigiMagic seems the ONLY field portable device that allows true ARCHIVE quality backup and verification of flash card files without a laptop.   And powering from (a planned product) 5 volt switching supply run on a 4 D cells seems far easier than field powering a laptop to burn archive quality discs.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2006, 07:07:04 AM »

The HyperDrive HD80 promises 16MB/s, link. Like Leonard said, we need someone to actually use one of these things and report back on actual performance.


Thank you for posting your experiences with transfers.  And following my own advice, here is an update on the burner I purchased for easy flash transfer to DVD.

While my EZDigiMagic burner worked flawlessly for transfers of 2 ~2GIG size flash files or < 4 gigs fitting on 1 DVD blank, recent need to transfer 3 files totalling just over 5 GIGs to DVD caused the spanning feature to fail. 

Burner initiated stating spanning was needed to transfer the flash files, and first try made it to beginning of file #2 before burner ground to a standstill only acting like it was still burning files (drive activity light still flashing), but NO transfered bytes file status change after ~44 mininutes to over 60 minutes when I had to pull the plug (power off switch) as ESC button didn't work, starting over.  Second and third try initiated identically, but failed to transfer even the 1st file after two more tries before again locking up with identical symtoms.

Looked at the first burned disc and found a readable and intact (first) file, and second 0 bit failed file.  So I had the first file transfered OK and deleted that file from the flash using the MT deck.  Then again used the EXDigiMagic to successfully transfer the remaining <4 GIG two files to single DVD disk. 

While CD-R/RW capacity disk spanning might work OK (not yet tested) there seems a likely problem with DVD spanning over 4 GIGs and I won't know for sure until next time I have again have similar >4GIG flash capacity to transfer.

I guess it's time (after the 4th holiday) to call their customer/technical assist numbers to see if there's a problem with a solution.

Keep sharing those transfer device experiences.
 

Finally got around to calling EzDigiMagic product Customer service (during business hours) and was quickly talking to a tech who related NO ONE has tested the device spanning with anything like the large 2 GIG audio files I was attempting when transfer problems occured. 

As with flash memory cards, these devices are mostly used for digital camera photo files and later for MP3 audio, NOT specifically tested to handle continuous audio files of two or more GIGS each in size, so I was the first to report this shortcoming with transfer that required DVD (~4 GIG capacity) disk spanning.

After confirming my unit had the latest firmware and everything, the tech is giving this a 'high priority' engineering support status to find out what can be done. 

Keep progress on this posted as the EzDigiMagic seems the ONLY field portable device that allows true ARCHIVE quality backup and verification of flash card files without a laptop.   And powering from (a planned product) 5 volt switching supply run on a 4 D cells seems far easier than field powering a laptop to burn archive quality discs.

Called Thursday and talked to a 'Dave' in customer tech service as reported above, and was out when Dave called back Friday to leave a long 'Dear GuySonic' message relating that their backup device was NOT designed for handling large files that needed spanning, the device was never intended to be able to 'break-span' a large continuous file,  yada, yada, yada.   In other words, so far they seem to NOT want to do the tests with at 2 to 3 large files like I had trouble with. 

The files I had were two 2-gig size files (that should've fit 'unbroken' on a single DVD disc), and a third ~700MEG size file (in that order) that caused the machine to stall after copying the first file on the first try, then failed to copy even the first file on further attempts, and never did get to the second file after 3 tries.   

As reported here previously, by removing the first file from the flash, the unit worked to back up the remaining 2 GIG and .7 GIG (<4 GIG total) files.  I now am wondering if the device will actually copy two 2-GIG size flash files onto a single DVD; something tells me this might also cause the device to stall out. 

EzDigiMagic device is specifically marketed to be able to store 4 gigs on a single DVD, but does that also mean two 2 GIG audio files would be handled?
Appears not so likely with my experience.

Next week I go back to talking to EZpnp company about these issues, stay tuned for more news, or my getting a misrepresented product refund.

"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2006, 08:23:38 AM »
I guess this little box will work with my R-09 and an old 20GB iPod:
http://www.iperris.com/otgbridge.htm

Does anyone have any experience with these?

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Recordings:
Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2006, 08:18:46 PM »

Thank you for posting your experiences with transfers.  And following my own advice, here is an update on the burner I purchased for easy flash transfer to DVD.

While my EZDigiMagic burner worked flawlessly for transfers of 2 ~2GIG size flash files or < 4 gigs fitting on 1 DVD blank, recent need to transfer 3 files totalling just over 5 GIGs to DVD caused the spanning feature to fail. 

Burner initiated stating spanning was needed to transfer the flash files, and first try made it to beginning of file #2 before burner ground to a standstill only acting like it was still burning files (drive activity light still flashing), but NO transfered bytes file status change after ~44 mininutes to over 60 minutes when I had to pull the plug (power off switch) as ESC button didn't work, starting over.  Second and third try initiated identically, but failed to transfer even the 1st file after two more tries before again locking up with identical symtoms.

Looked at the first burned disc and found a readable and intact (first) file, and second 0 bit failed file.  So I had the first file transfered OK and deleted that file from the flash using the MT deck.  Then again used the EXDigiMagic to successfully transfer the remaining <4 GIG two files to single DVD disk. 

While CD-R/RW capacity disk spanning might work OK (not yet tested) there seems a likely problem with DVD spanning over 4 GIGs and I won't know for sure until next time I have again have similar >4GIG flash capacity to transfer.

I guess it's time (after the 4th holiday) to call their customer/technical assist numbers to see if there's a problem with a solution.

Keep sharing those transfer device experiences.
 

Finally got around to calling EzDigiMagic product Customer service (during business hours) and was quickly talking to a tech who related NO ONE has tested the device spanning with anything like the large 2 GIG audio files I was attempting when transfer problems occured. 

As with flash memory cards, these devices are mostly used for digital camera photo files and later for MP3 audio, NOT specifically tested to handle continuous audio files of two or more GIGS each in size, so I was the first to report this shortcoming with transfer that required DVD (~4 GIG capacity) disk spanning.

After confirming my unit had the latest firmware and everything, the tech is giving this a 'high priority' engineering support status to find out what can be done. 

Keep progress on this posted as the EzDigiMagic seems the ONLY field portable device that allows true ARCHIVE quality backup and verification of flash card files without a laptop.   And powering from (a planned product) 5 volt switching supply run on a 4 D cells seems far easier than field powering a laptop to burn archive quality discs.

Called Thursday and talked to a 'Dave' in customer tech service as reported above, and was out when Dave called back Friday to leave a long 'Dear GuySonic' message relating that their backup device was NOT designed for handling large files that needed spanning, the device was never intended to be able to 'break-span' a large continuous file,  yada, yada, yada.   In other words, so far they seem to NOT want to do the tests with at 2 to 3 large files like I had trouble with. 

The files I had were two 2-gig size files (that should've fit 'unbroken' on a single DVD disc), and a third ~700MEG size file (in that order) that caused the machine to stall after copying the first file on the first try, then failed to copy even the first file on further attempts, and never did get to the second file after 3 tries.   

As reported here previously, by removing the first file from the flash, the unit worked to back up the remaining 2 GIG and .7 GIG (<4 GIG total) files.  I now am wondering if the device will actually copy two 2-GIG size flash files onto a single DVD; something tells me this might also cause the device to stall out. 

EzDigiMagic device is specifically marketed to be able to store 4 gigs on a single DVD, but does that also mean two 2 GIG audio files would be handled?
Appears not so likely with my experience.

Next week I go back to talking to EZpnp company about these issues, stay tuned for more news, or my getting a misrepresented product refund.

Got a 'returned my call' from an engineer responsible for customer support and he was very receptive to understand just what is occuring with large audio file archive to disc backup.

It seems there are many variables, not just file size and type, but also types of flash can cause system transfer problems.  He did acknowledge these products were NOT tested with the types and sizes of files we are making in audio flash decks, and wants to investigate all the variables of flash card types and audio file size issues with the DVD burner product.  I am very encouraged by this recent conversation to say the least.

So the plan is I'm being sent at least one other make/model CF 4GIG or larger card known to work OK with their product to try recording with MT another two 2-GIG size audio files type for backup.  IF this works, I will try just recording another file set with my existing Sandisk Ultra II, to see if there's a problem using this card type. 

Although I have experiences and by all reports here to assume Sandisk Ultra II to be most reliable in my and most other's experience, the engineer related that his personal knowledge and knowing others within the company having problems with exactly this type of flash for at least reliability reasons, and then named most all the other types of less costly flash cards we have all seen deeply discounted and wondered if I've tried any of those as he has no bad experiences the alternatives, but I have to wonder as this has NOT been our experience in this group where most of those makes mentioned reported to caused at least occassional grief for one reason or another. 

My opinion is still the Sandisk Ultra II is one with most reports of reliability AND consistent workability for audiio recording purposes.  His opinion/EXPERIENCES is based on CAMERA photo file recording/transfer, and this may be the reason for differing experience and opinions.

Well, to continue, we talked for about an hour about all issues dealing with this application, and I did mention how SLO....OW this product burns to disc.  News is there is a new hardware version that's twice the speed coming out soon, (he'll send me one TO TEST AT FIRST CHANCE!), AND it will take advantage of the dual layer disc drive already in my version that is currently unsupported for backup function.   So maybe this is the way to go after all.   

In other words, Burn a dual-layer 8+GIG capacity DVD disc IN ONE SHOT, NO SPANNING NEEDED for 8-GIG flash card!?!?

Like I said before, this is the (only type of) product capable of archive quality backup, and ability to handle 8 GIG FLASH IN ONE DISC BURN IN AN HOUR'S TIME WOULD BE AWESOME.

I did have to ask him if other products like this are on the market, and response is ONLY one,the 'other make' taking twice the time to do the same things.

Stay tuned for tests results and (being optimistic now) practical solutions. 
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2006, 08:25:21 PM »
This is another update on the EzDigiMagic optical backup/archiving burner that refused to span DVD discs on first to third attemps with same seeming OK set of flash files. 

It seems the device WILL SPAN automatically to several DVDs.  I discovered working operation after doing a few more tests, one similar to first set of files that failed.  This time the burner first spanned properly (without incident) (3) 24bit/88.2K files totalling 4.74GIGS. These were two 2 GIG, and one 744meg size files.  The first DVD handled the two 2 gig files, and then the device asked for another blank, refusing a CD-R 700meg capacity blank as NOT enough space; which was correct, then accepted the second blank DVD+r for transferring the last 744meg file, closed the disc, and everything checked out with the two discs being burned correctly without noticeable errors.

Third test in this series is a completely autofilled 8-GIG CF card containing 5 wav files of type like before.  The card held four 2-GIG files, and a fifth ~70meg file recorded until the MT deck found no more memory space on the card, then stopped recording.

The burner accepted the filled up card, and properly spanned all five files to two DVD blanks, again without problems.

I am using the SAME Sandisk Ultra II 8-GIG flash card and MT deck, but upgraded the deck's firmware from 1.4.0 to 1.4.3, and this is the ONLY change in making these tests.  NO changes with the EzDigiMagic burner in any way.

Whatever the problem with making the first series of tests that failed, the problem has not reappeared so far.  Talking to EasyPNP engineers indicated speculation that something was not quite right with format on first files attemped, and that the burner (like some of the audio flash decks) can be sensitive to file/card format issues for proper operation.

So I guess I go to use the burner AS-IS until  problems again surface. 

My next series of tests will be with files LESS THAN 2-GIG size.  Like having 1.5 + .5 +1 + 2 + .75 GIG size files that should challenge the burner to allocate which files fit on a single disc, then span the next series of files to other blanks as needed. 

Uneven file size flash spanning is more likely normal for a field recordist doing a series of project recordings, and the burner is NOT allowed to split-up individual files, but hope it properly allocates whole files for spanning DVD archival requirements without further problems. 

Asked the engineers if there was ANY OTHER disc burner like their product useful for this purpose.  Reply was just one other, but worked much slower than their's, maybe fewer features.  Well it takes nearly an HOUR to burn a 4 GIG DVD disc now, we really should have faster, not slower.  Maybe the Dual Layer burner will get produced as mentioned before, and this is planned to double the burn speed.  Would be nice to burn an entire 8 GIG flash card to ONE DVD in less than an hours time.  Make a nice Christmas present it would.

In any case, I'll post the next test results ASAP.
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Offline flintstone

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2006, 02:42:50 AM »
Here's another portable, battery powered DVD burner with built-in flash card reader:

Delkin DVD BurnAway, $300
http://www.delkin.com/products/burnaway/dvd/index.html

The web site says you can record in multi-session format, but does not mention
a disc-spanning function.

Flintstone

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2006, 07:31:33 AM »
Here's another portable, battery powered DVD burner with built-in flash card reader:

Delkin DVD BurnAway, $300
http://www.delkin.com/products/burnaway/dvd/index.html

The web site says you can record in multi-session format, but does not mention
a disc-spanning function.

Flintstone
 

This must be the OTHER disc burner the EasyPNP guys were talking about as being 'slower' than their's.  However, delkin shows this model 'out of stock' and might be out of production(?). 

A search shows Delkin device selling (in stock) at only $219 at: http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=DLKBA e-tailer and a few others also claiming stock and discounted price far below Delkin's.

The BurnAway DOES claim to do spanning, and about half a dozen more media playback (TV and Headphones) and CD-R/DVD-R USB connected burner functions NOT done by the EZdigiMagic; AND comes with a REMOTE CONTROL for playback functions. 

So for the money and media features, the Delkin burner is worth considering.  But does it work as advertised?

If you do purchase this unit, please post performance experiences, and strongly suggest getting the DC auto adapter cord as this may be the only way to charge/power this unit in remote locations after the charged up NiMH battery is exhausted.

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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2006, 05:10:45 AM »
Just noticed a NEW, BUT NON-portable Sony DVDirect MC1 Multi-Function DVD Recorder And Player - VRD-MC1 with all flavors of flash card reader, and ability to record FIREWIRE/COMPOSITE video with internal MPEG-2 encoder. 

See this at: http://www.abtelectronics.com/product/22574.html  Manual link is found there also.

After reading the reviews, and owners manual, there is NO MENTION of reading anything other than camera image files off the flash, so MAYBE this burner IS NOT SO GOOD for audio file transfer and storage.

Less expensive than portable disc backup versions, very cool with video/photo features, and over twice the size of portable versions.

I was wondering if anyone has tried using this burner for audio file backup? 

If so, does it work, and how fast is it?
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2006, 09:13:28 AM »
Recent page on shutterbug mentions products from most of the OTG makers on the market at http://www.shutterbug.com/features/0606portablestorage/
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2007, 12:55:03 PM »
I was doing a search for OTG drives or other portable storage solutions when I came across this and thought this would be a good sticky.
Best info I found yet and maybe consolidate some posts that touch on this?
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/jackoroses
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Re: Portable Computer-less Archive/Transfer/Backup of Flash Recordings
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2008, 06:21:55 PM »
I agree that Nexto OTG (with internal Lithium rechargeable maybe good for 30Gig of transfer) is one of the best choices for compact size especially suited for CF type, and having battery power for one day's worth of higher bit/rate recordings.  For other types of flash cards like SD used in new R-09, Nexto OTG requires an external USB card reader.  This additional reader must be packed and plugged into the Nexto OTG's (active networking) USB port, or maybe use just a CF-to-SD slot adapter if there's such a product.


Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I thought I'd post this here, since there's been thorough discussion about the pros and cons about Nexto.
I haven't seen this mentioned on TS yet, but Nexto released a new model back in May 2007 that reads SD cards as well:
http://www.nextodi.com/en/product/

There are firmware updates to ND-2525 and ND-2325, to ensure support of 16GB CF cards. I get the impression that transfer times have improved too.

Did anyone try either of these later models?!

BTW, great research by Guysonic and Flintstone! +T

/Jan
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 06:23:32 PM by sunjan »
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